Stargate Atlantis Flashfiction

Feedback is like crack to authors.

From:

Hi! I'm drunk and new to this fandom. I think your story has potential, but it is clearly a polemic. Oh, margaritas. You make me see things so clearly. Also, I think it is "radio" not "comm". Try to focus more on the emotional pain of the situation--this story may have started earlier. And, at the end I was confused. I thought Carson believed Colonel Sheppard beat the Athosian and he would have to go back to Earth because of his repressed homosexuality. I look forward to more of your work. Also, more tequila.

From:

Polemic: A controversial argument. *furrows brow* You mean that don't ask, don't tell is a controversial argument?

What the ending implies is that one of the new Marines that joined the Atlantis contingent beat the shit out the guy for making a pass at him and that it's Sheppard's job to deal with him.

I used comm because radio, to me, implies radio waves and I can't imagine the PA system in Atlantis using something so primative.

Enjoy your tequila.

From:

edI am MORE drunkl now. Now longer can type yet still coherent. And intelllihngent.

Don't ask don't tell is the definition of a controversial argument.

Anyway, what I meant was, I unsderstood what you implied, but what I felt was that by saying "marines beat up gay people" is a generlizaition. You're using a one eimensional character to prove tha fact that gay people have it rough. And plus this is a scene not a story. O(",

Look up straw man argument, says my also d4eunk feriend.

When I qm sober I will stillsay the same thing because I ams mart.

From:

Perhaps you should wait to comment when you're not drunk, because you're certainly not making any sense right now.

From:

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be all...drunk.

I am sober now because a friend of mine refuses to give me rum. Plus made made me drink water.

But I stand by what I've said. Perhaps I will say it with more tact tomorrow.

Still and nevertheless, the fact remains that this scene is divorced from its context and therefore attempts to convey emotion that it tells but doesn't show. The cardinal sin of storytelling is telling instead of showing. Here I see results instead of what actually happened. I don't know this Athosian guy, I didn't see what happened to him--it's all after the fact. You see, we have to know him before you can beat him. It's like SGA itself--it was, what, Siege I before they killed Grodin. We'd had an entire season to get to know him, and when he died we all felt it because we knew him as a loyal, dependable, steady member of the expedition. This guy doesn't even have a name. We don't care if he's hit by a bus tomorrow because we don't know him, we don't love him, we don't care about him.

I'm not saying you should have Rodney beaten into a coma by his abusive father just because we *know* him, that's not good enough; we have to have background, we have to have a reason, there has to be emotion there that I don't see here, unfortunately. The reason I say it's a polemic is because it's an ARGUMENT, it isn't storytelling. You're saying GAYBASHING IS WRONG, and I *agree*, it IS wrong, I despise gaybashing, but nevertheless you're doing it obviously, not through the subtle mode of fiction.

Anyway, like I say, I'm sorry that drunkenness brings out the critic in me, but nevertheless I think it's constructive criticism, because, trust me, I know from bad writing and this ISN'T bad writing. You just need to know what you're trying to say and disguise it with...aliens, or something. Be subtle. And when I'm sober, I promise, I'll be subtle too.

From:

I see results instead of what actually happened. I don't know this Athosian guy, I didn't see what happened to him--it's all after the fact.

Er, perhaps that's because this story isn't about the Athosian guy or gay bashing. What I see is a story about a culture clash, and Carson Beckett. And that very certainly does come across--in Athosian guy's reluctance to talk to someone outside his culture, in his decision to talk to Teyla and create a further separation between the two cultures, as well as Carson's stubborn caring and choice to act.

But then, mostly I just object to someone who celebrates flaming an author because they're drunk.

From:

Mmmm, again, sorry for that. Definitely sobering up here--I spilled my rum. Okay, here's the thing. When we live in a world that takes constructive criticism as a flame is...not good. I'll admit I was drunk when I first posted, but that's definitely no longer the case; besides which, as someone who has been part of a writer's group for going on six years now, I've learned a thing or two about critiquing. I stand by my opinions, misspelled though they were. If the author wishes to disregard my advice, that's entirely within her perogative. It's her writing, she can do what she wants with it. I'm only a member of the audience, and I call it as I see it. By saying I'm flaming it, you're preventing me from helping--that is, of course, if she wants my help; if she doesn't, I'm fine with it. If someone posted something where the author notes clearly state that it is unbetaed and that she is new to the fandom, I think my thoughts are as valid as anyone's. I have been watching SGA for four days straight. I'm drunk simply because I'm watching Canadian movies starring David Hewlett, and margaritas are the only way to maintain my sanity. (And, of course, I say this *as* a Canadian--our movies are very dark, moody, and naked). I *am* a fan, and I am a writer. We're all trying to improve, and it's only through the suggestions of our peers that we're able to do so. I wanted to help. If I didn't because of my intoxication, that's unfortunate, and I apologize. I still maintain that I would say the same thing--though, again, more tactfully--had I been sober from the outset.

I'm sorry that this has upset you. But, you are not the author, and my comments were for her.

From:

Absolutely, it's not my place to carry out this discussion here. It's rude to the rest of the members of this group. I have just one last thing to say.

By saying I'm flaming it, you're preventing me from helping--that is, of course, if she wants my help; if she doesn't, I'm fine with it.

Let me refer you to your own post, in your own journal:

I flamed a ficcer today. HShe might be made. I will tell her i was reujnks. Thgqat will fohgive oall. tequlia gooooooood. ber bad.

From:

It was inappropriate of me to post while drunk, not only here, but in my personal journal. Nevertheless, I believe my issues with the writer's work are still valid. SGA is a new fandom to me, and I've decided that honesty's the way to go. I'm tired of heaping praise where measured and thoughtful feedback is warranted. Obviously, I've failed in that: once more, I apologise. Should

rogue_planet wish to discuss my points here in more detail, I would welcome her emails at queenzulu47 at yahoo dot com.

*sighs over stained carpet where rum was spilled*

From:

as someone who has been part of a writer's group for going on six years now, I've learned a thing or two about critiquing
Oh, sugar. You really don't want to start dick-sizing on this one. Not in this community.

From:

I think you should perhaps wait until morning before you reply more thoroughly. Due to the way alcohol is processed out of one's system, one vastly overestimates one's own sobriety once one is past the peak of intoxication.

What you've given here is not constructive criticism, both because it's insulting to the writer (and thus not constructive), and because the parts you were confused about seem to stem more from your drunkenness than from any lack of clarity on the author's part.

The point of this community is not always to share full stories; sometimes it's just to show a scene, or a vignette, so this isn't inappropriate.

To me, this was not a story about DADT; it was a story about culture clash. It's not just the Athosian getting beat up that's important, but also his reaction to it, the fact that he doesn't want to talk about it, that is telling about HIS culture. Could you, perhaps, be bringing your own baggage to this story?

From:

Heh. Oh, trust me, I never overestimate my sobriety--in fact, it's often the opposite. Occasional drunkenness, my various faux pas notwithstanding, can be quite freeing.

Do my misunderstandings stem from my inebriation? Good question. What led me to the conclusion that Beckett thought Sheppard was the perpetrator was simply this: as soon as the Athosian admits he's been beaten, Beckett immediately pages Sheppard--as though confronting the guilty party as soon as possible is the only way to proceed. Now, this is fanon, not canon, but Sheppard has been portrayed in the past as repressing his homosexuality, and in fact, being self-hating because of this. That is why I leapt to conclusions. Yes, I can see that Colonel Sheppard, as the military head of the expedition, would be *one* of the people to contact in this situation--but why not Bates, head of security, or Weir, leader of the entire colony?

As to whether an author may post a scene or a vignette rather than a story--of course, definitely, they should. Getting suggestions (as the

rogue_planet hopes for in the author notes) is a great way to know if a beginning is worth pursuing. However, in this particular case, no indication was given that this was *not* a scene, rather than a complete story. My feedback, that it was not, in fact, complete, is based on the assumption that these 314 words are all there is. If this is only an opening to a story, the author should have indicated that in the headers--that way, I would have known how to approach it as a reader, and whether to expect a continuation.

Am I bringing my own baggage to this story? Hmm, not quite sure what you mean on this one. I am gay, but I've never been discriminated against for it. "Baggage"...huh. No, I'd have to say that's a negative. I don't know what your acronym DADT stands for, either, sorry. Culture clash is an excellent plot for a story, and I think we should see *more* of it. I think this story has amazing potential--I'd love to read a story from an Athosian's POV, who runs into not only homophobia for the first time, but a host of other issues that he's never had to face. Doctor-patient confidentiality, for instance, is another theme in this scene that's never developed. What does this Athosian think about Carson's questions? Does he find them intrusive? Has he ever had to explain himself to a medical professional before? Maybe the *true* culture clash is not in getting beaten, but rather in the Athosian's response to the investigation that Beckett launches. Maybe the Athosian only finds shame in the fact that his "unwanted advance" is now the basis for a military inquiry, when, as far as he has ever known, it should be treated as if it never happened.

Of course, we don't see any of that, because this scene is from Beckett's POV. That brings in a host of different questions: what does Carson think of "don't ask, don't tell"? Is *he* comfortable with homosexuality? Why or why not? More than anything, this is about *Carson's* culture, not the Athosian's, because we are seeing the events from his perspective. As a character piece on Beckett, this scene is, again, worthy of continuation.

I'm not trying to put the author down, whatever you may believe. I may have phrased it badly--and, please, again, I will say that drunk-posting is *not* a good idea, and I regret it--but I'm not saying that this story is *bad*. I'm saying that I think the author's good enough that there should be *more*. What happened before? What happened after? Who was hurt by it? Did Carson change because of this? Did the Athosian? Was the spirit of the Atlantean expedition as a whole damaged by this interaction in some way? Without change, there is no story: plot is the sum of the characters' choices. I want to see dynamism here, and insight.

Please,

rogue_planet, keep writing, and keep posting. As for me, I'm going to keep giving advice--but I promise, next time, I won't drink tequila first.

From:

I don't know what your acronym DADT stands for, either, sorry.
Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Now, this is fanon, not canon, but Sheppard has been portrayed in the past as repressing his homosexuality, and in fact, being self-hating because of this.
Huh. You are obviously reading different stories than I am.

As stated through the series and firmly established in the episode "Hot Zone", Sheppard has final say over military matters on the base; therefore Carson is taking appropriate action. He's following protocol. And that's what I mean about bringing your own baggage to the story. Your baggage is that you have read several stories where Shep is portrayed as a self-loathing homo. (Yes, I have baggage, too - I've had lots of friends and family in the military, so I immediately perceived this as Carson following the appropriate chain of command.) This, along with your critique of the author's use of the term "comm", leads me to believe you've got very little familiarity with this show. Those things are in canon, and thus not incorrect.

Some of what you are trying to do here is turn what is, essentially, a vignette into a story. I think many of the comments in your most recent reply to me are good...IF the author wants to take this and turn it into a 3000-word story, or longer. Maybe the author does. Maybe the author does not. I think it needs to be critiqued on the grounds of what it IS, and not on the grounds of the story/novel/teleplay/heroic edda that it COULD be.

None of this is meant to say that this story is un-critiqueable. I think there's a lot of ways in which it could be developed and honed. However, I think when the "critique" in question is more about your inebriated state than the author's work, it's not a critique (or a polemic). It's just embarassing.

From:

loveanddarkness.livejournal.com

(1) The story does not reference the gender of the person to whom the advance was made.

(2) The severity of the injuries suggest, but do not prove, that the offended attacker was male. A female Marine could well be capable of beating the snot out of just a man.

(3) The story does not imply Sheppard as the attacker. Beckett called him to deal with the situation as the ranking military officer. If he had suspicion that Sheppard had attacked someone, he would not call Sheppard, but rather Weir.

Whether a gay advance offended a male Marine, or a rather forward advance offended a female Marine, the author has not chosen to tell us.

From:

You know what's interesting? I didn't think I was coming to this story with any real baggage, but obviously I was, because it never OCCURRED to me that the soldier in question could be a woman! Thank you for pointing that out!

From:

loveanddarkness.livejournal.com

You're welcome.

The 'bigotry' thought that Carson has could suggest the Athosian man making an unwelcome advance to another man, but the 'bigotry' could be against non-Earth humans, or the Athosian because of skin color, or because they're a 'primitive' people.

If a Marine rejected a homosexual advance, he'd also be following current orders about gays in the military. That's one thing - beating someone up badly is another, and completely unacceptable.

From:

These are very valid points, ones that the author should definitely take into consideration. I'm glad that you, too, were left to ponder the ambiguity of this scene.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_ceci15_/

This was nicely done. It was clear and to the point. I could hear Carson's voice clearly.

From:

Glad I got the voice right. I was worried about doing it from his POV.

From:

Nicely done. Subtle but clear, bringing out something that very well could have happened. Your Carson voice is quite good!

From:

Glad you liked it.

From:

foggynite.livejournal.com

I loved your Carson voice here-- The caring, the concern, and the lack of tolerance for bigots (Which, considering they're there to explore and establish diplomatic relations with other cultures, makes a great deal of sense!) Very plausible, and subtle-- A great combination ^.^

From:

I'm usually not very good at subtely. I'm glad you liked it.

From:

ship-recs.livejournal.com

This is very nice.

From:

Thank you. Glad you liked it.

From:

ltlj.livejournal.com

I enjoyed it too, and thought it was also very plausible. In the situation they're in, they would have to have a zero-tolerance for bigots, and especially violent bigots. A guy who would do that just couldn't be trusted the way they have to trust each other to survive.

From:

Trust is just as important as coffee. Glad you liked it.

From:

burningchaos.livejournal.com

Great Carson voice, I love it. Wouldn't mind seeeing what they do to the bad apples...conversation wise...

From:

Glad you liked it. And based on the reactions I've gotten, I'll probably continue this.

From:

burningchaos.livejournal.com

Excellent I can't wait *grins*

From:

raviahmad.livejournal.com

Okay, so on behalf of the rest of humanity, I apologize for the silly flamer person who just doesn't know when to quit!

I, on the other hand, really appreciate how much you managed to pack into such a short fic. There are so many aspects of miltary culture that are at odds with the potential of the whole Stargate project and especially the way thing are on Atlantis, I was pleased you brought that out. Given the whole Cadwell's sour grapes issue in last week's episode, the gay thing is clearly just one of a number of ways in which Wier and the rest have created a very unique blend of cultures on Atlantis.

So kudos for bringing all of this out. And for putting up with the flamer!

From:

jadedheroine.livejournal.com

I love the idea behind this story....I can see a full length fic growing from it, even. I like the subtlety, and I can definietly see the original Atlantis crew weednig out the new to make sure their city is inhabited only by the *best of humanity.

Oh, and I agree with raviahmad's apology on behalf of humanity - drunk flames are never cool, and for this fic no flames are warrented.

great job!

From:

sketchway.livejournal.com

I like Carson in this, all caring and "give me names so I can sic Weir on them." Also, your icon made my day.

From:

sketchway.livejournal.com

...and Sheppard. I don't want to come off sounding like I didn't read it. He just mentioned Weir first.

From:

duskyfox.livejournal.com

Nice Carson voice.

From:

Um... Wow. You know, my itty bitty story was just over three hundred words. It was just a little 'moment in time' sorta thing that fit one of the existing challenges. It does feel like part of something bigger, and maybe someday it will be, but for now, it's just this one tiny scene about the culture clash between the good Doctor and an Athosian.

Someone brought up the point that it could have been a female marine that beat up my nameless victim. It wasn’t. The basic point was that one of the newcomers to Atlantis couldn’t just say no, he had to make an example of the man.

It’s been said the story lacked emotion. It’s not totally lacking in emotion, (at least not to me), but it is told from a somewhat detached clinical stand point, Carson’s POV.

Beckett is a doctor, and a decent human being. He’s also a Scot. History major that I am, I have done a little research into the Scottish position on homosexuality. There is a law on the books granting same-sex couples the same legal rights as heterosexual couples in medical matters.

I would also like to state for the record that I didn’t consider queenzulu’s comments an attack or a flame, so you can all stop defending me. Not that I don’t love you all for it, but escalation wars are the roommate’s thing, not mine, and I’ve been at this a long time in various fandoms and under different personas. It’s given me a thick enough skin that I consider an attack to be something like oh… someone who reads one of my stories threatening to track me down and beat me to death with a frozen halibut. (Not that that has ever happened to me or anything.) A flame is saying something with merit sucks or making personal attacks on the characters with no context to the story. While I don’t agree with some of her points, I’m glad she made them.

You know, a few weeks ago, I made a comment about how no one ever debated my stories. Guess I should have kept my mouth shut, huh?

I may expand this. Hell, after all this, I sort of have to, don’t I?

From: