ADMIN POST: AN EXPERIMENT

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

We interrupt your regularly scheduled sga_flashfic challenges to bring you--well, the natterings of your Admin's increasingly deranged mind.

sga_flashfic has been going for a couple of years now here on LJ, and we're a happy and vibrant community, etc., but we're not, in this new world of multiple journaling platforms, interoperable. It may turn out that we can't be interoperable, but I found myself wondering if there's a way to make fic and other fannish communities like this one, of which I have always been a strong proponent, more interoperable as people choose multiple journaling platforms.

And so: an experiment. What I'm proposing is not that complicated, though it might sound so at first. If it works, awesome. If it doesn't work: no harm, no foul, ok?

I have created a mirror to sga_flashfic over on Dreamwidth. It's here: sga_flashfic. This is the Dreamwidth home of the community.

I have also created a couple of feeds.

One is a feed to THIS LJ COMMUNITY, sga_flashfic, for use over on dreamwidth. It's here: sga-flashfic-feed. This is for reading LJ's sga_flashfic comm on your DW reading list.

The other is a feed to the DREAMWIDTH version of sga_flashfic for use here on LJ: it's sga_flashfic_dw. This is for reading the Dreamwidth sga flashfiction comm on your LJ flist.

If you add the original sga_flashfic LJ community, there are now FOUR links associated with sga_flashfic: a LJ community, a DW community, a feed to the LJ community, and a feed to the DW community.

Here's what I--in my crack-addled state--am suggesting.

1) If you have a primary reading page (LJ or DW), subscribe to the COMMUNITY housed on that site and to the FEED of the opposite site.

That is to say, if you're reading on LJ, subscribe to sga_flashfic and to the flashfic FEED on DW sga_flashfic_dw. This will let you get all stories on both sites.

If you're reading on DW, subscribe to sga_flashfic on Dreamwidth and to the FEED of the LJ version: sga-flashfic-feed. This will also let you get all stories on both sites.

If you do not have a primary reading page, which is to say, you're reading two flist/reading pages, you can just subscribe to both comms and no feeds: sga_flashfic and sga_flashfic on Dreamwidth. You'll see the DW stories on your DW reading page and the LJ stories on your LJ page.

With me so far?

2) All ADMIN posts will be posted to BOTH COMMUNITIES, and this is important: only ADMIN posts will be crossposted. Why? Because seeing double of everything SUCKS, so we want to keep it to a minimum. Which leads me to #3.

3) Challenge responses--i.e. stories!--can be posted to EITHER community but NOT to BOTH communities. In other words: pick ONE: post EITHER to LJ's sga_flashfic OR to DW's sga_flashfic. Why? Because if everyone does what they're supposed to vis a vis #1, everyone will get ONE COPY of every story posted to THE GREATER ENTITY OF SGA_FLASHFIC on either community on their flist/reading list of choice. Comments will be centralized at one place, too, because there will only be ONE POST for every story.

Everybody with me on this? The goal here--let me be totally clear!--is for people to be able to pick the journaling platform they're happiest with and not have to deal with the other one if you don't want to. If you're a LJ person, one click and you get all the DW stories without having to pay any attention otherwise to DW. If you want to be a DW person, one click and you can get the stories posted to LJ's sga_flashfic community delivered to your door and never deal with Frank the Goat again.

OK, problems I can already forsee:

Q: Dreamwidth what, huh? WTF are you talking about?
A: Dreamwidth, like Journalfen and Insanejournal etc, is a new journaling service. Some fans are getting secondary accounts there or moving there. If you don't give a shit about dreamwidth, that is totally fine and you have three choices for this next challenge: 1) ignore it totally [downside: you might miss some stories that are posted to DW and not to LJ during this experimental challenge] 2) subscribe to the DW feed [upside: one click, and you will then not miss any stories] 3) subscribe to the DW and also get a DW account and/or an open-ID account for commenting [downside: more work; upside, you can also comment on the stories on DW with an iconed identity.] But seriously, ignoring it for this one challenge until we figure out if this is going to work or not is also totally fine.

Q: But commenting! I'm not a member of DW and I don't have an open ID there and so how can I post?
A: Opening an Open ID is really pretty easy peasy if you have a LJ account, so I'd do that--it means you can comment with icons and receive email notifications of replies to comments without being a Dreamwidth member, but I've also enabled anonymous commenting on the DW community for the time being. Yes, it sucks, but at least it means you can comment if you want to.

Q: But I have both LJ and DW accounts! and now I don't know where to post my flashfic! Where will more people see my story? Where will I get more comments?
A: Dude, I don't know; this is all pretty experimental. If you're really worried, post to LJ the way you've always done; I haven't seen many unsubbers, and with the feed, you should get read by the DW converts too. Or might I suggest writing two stories for the next challenge and posting one to each community if you've got both as a sort of test? *g*

Q: But--but--tagging?
A: This is probably the trickiest. I'm still thinking this through: atm, I'll be tagging/memorying each on each site, but I'm debating just moving the whole tagging thing over to delicious. Anyone have thoughts on this, let me know.

Q: I hate change and I hate DW and I hate YOU.
A: I know I know I know. I hate change too, and I hate myself sometimes. I just thought it was worth a try. If it doesn't work, or there are howls of rage, we can figure out something else.

I'm sure I've missed a bunch of other potential problems, but I'm in a "nothing ventured, nothing have" kind of mood. So let's give this a shot. I'm going to post a version of this also to DW, and then shortly after, we'll get the next challenge posted to BOTH communities and see how it goes. Please please do give me feedback over the course of the challenge--and I'll be requesting it specifically at the end--to see if this works and maybe shows a way forward or was just a colossal pain in the ass. Thanks for your patience and <3 you all.

Edited to add: I'm sure this list will keep growing, as you guys are smart and know things I did not!

1) Don't comment on the feeds! Ideally, the feed will take you to the story, and you should comment there. That is a tricky thing, but I'm sure we'll get used to it!

2) There is some question as to whether LJ feed will respect DW-cut tags (I've set the DW community to respect the LJ cut tags already). I haven't had anything to test it on, and it could be a real dealbreaker if it doesn't: nobody wants a whole big story cluttering your flist. I'm hoping that as with other feeds, LJ might just cut DW stories into a para and a "read more", but hopefully there's a code wank for this, because this could bring down the whole house of cards. *shakes fist at the sky* Update: A couple of solutions--including using the LJ-cut tag at DW--look possible; stay tuned.

3) I'm already wondering if I made the wrong choice about posting ADMIN to both places, or if its only because I just made two large posts (mostly challenge and closing posts are pretty small.) I want the ADMIN to be NEUTRAL, dammit, but even doubles of two posts a challenge might be too many! Maybe I can alternate in the interests of fairness...? Feel free to weigh in.

Comments

[ldyanne.livejournal.com]

Wow, you are of the awesome to work so hard to make this work for everyone!

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Or OUT OF MY FUCKING EVERLOVING MIND. Also not to be discounted!

But I love communities! I think they're the key to fandom! So I'm willing to experiment a little, so please, please, bear with me!

[dancinguniverse.livejournal.com]

This sounds like a really good way to handle things. I hope it works out for people.

[trobadora]

This sounds good! Only problem I can see is that AFAIK while feeds on DW respect LJ-cuts, feeds on LJ don't. But I'm sure we'll survive. *g*

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you--that's useful info--I already set the DW version to respect the LJ cuts; grr if there's no way to make LJ respect DW cuts!! I guess I had nothing to cut it on to test it with! That might really be a dealbreaker, goddammit! (or at least, if it only shows the first part of a story so as not to be a flistish SPACE HOG, that would be fine too.)

Will look into that now!

[longtimegone]

I am totally fascinated. Watching how everyone figures this out is awesome.

FWIW I am currently reading on both places, but I will subscribe to EVERYTHING OMG and that way, I never miss ANYTHING even if I only have time to check one reading list. Well, in theory. :D

[jennytork.livejournal.com]

.....and the prompt is--?

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

GETTING THERE! < /Rodney McKay!! >

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

OMG how could you I hate you! ::grin:: Seriously, this seems like a very useful scheme; thanks for all the work!

[loriel-eris.livejournal.com]

I suspect that this post may be one of the awesomer outcomes of DW opening. I adore the thought and logic that went into this. *g*

[ratcreature]

Comments will be centralized at one place, too, because there will only be ONE POST for every story.
But isn't it possible to comment on feed posts too? And authors won't get those comments then. If you read a story on a feed you have to remember to go to the original link rather than the "leave comment" that is right in front of you.

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Yes, excellent excellent point which I'll go and edit in! DON'T COMMENT ON THE FEEDS!--I'm sure I'll also have to be posting as we go along to remind folks of that. Thank you!

[lamardeuse.livejournal.com]

You rock for putting this together.

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I just--it's worth a try, you know??

[florahart]

I'm hoping that as with other feeds, LJ might just cut DW stories into a para and a "read more",

This is evidently a setting in the feed. I don't know how to make it do the wanted/expected thing, but it's a setting, is why for instance the feed for fandom wank (which I subscribe to basically entirely so I will know if I am about to wade into a wankstorm) is just a very brief title and link, but language log it's the whole damn post.

[(Anonymous)]

So basically someone who just belongs to the LJ comm but is too much of an old foggy to get the concept of feeds will miss all the fics posted only to DW? I bet the SG 90210 audience gets feeds and Dreamwidth and OpenID...

Sorry, I am trying not to be negative because your efforts are appreciated as always and the SGA flashfic community is great, but I am just so tired of the whole Dreamwidth politicking and the peer pressure. I just don't respond to peer pressure well (not from you personally, I mean most of my flist for the past couple of weeks).

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Listen, I totally get that. Believe it or not, I am always the person who's like NOOO NOOO not because I am a fogey but because I resent the time having to spend rejiggering the architecture; I work hard and I just want to get to my fannish fun!! And I can totally see where this would be the last straw on the camel's back if you've been in a dreamwidth deluge.

That being said, if you can get the concept of "friending a journal" you can get the concept of "friending a feed." I know that my post wasn't the clearest, because it was trying to be exhaustive and demonstrate the whole reasoning and all that, but honestly, it doesn't come down to more than--friend sga_flashfic and friend the sga_flashfic extension.

That's presuming this test even WORKS and we don't abandon the idea!

[linziday.livejournal.com]

Holy cow! So much work. Thank you for doing all this. I have a feeling it'll all eventually work itself out. People will either naturally migrate to DW or stay with LJ. Of course that's easy for me to say, what with absolutely no admin to deal with.... ;0)

[spike21.livejournal.com]

auuuuuuugh! *hides under binkie forever*

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Coaxes you out with cookies??

[semielliptical]

Thank you so much for thinking this through! I hope this trial works and the comm can exist on both platforms.

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Worth a shot, I thought! You never know until you try...

[svmadelyn.livejournal.com]

I shall be watching your experiment with GREAT interest, as I have currently been staring at my communities pondering the possibilities. *g*

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Awesome! Let me know if you have any suggestions or anything--there's GOT to be a way to make this work!

[thingswithwings.livejournal.com]

oh wow, this is brilliant! What a great solution . . . I was wondering how comms like this one would handle the shift to DW, and this is actually quite elegant. The tags thing is the only thing that gives me pause, but if you're willing to do all that work tagging on delicious, then I am content (and I respect your hard work even MORE). Thank you so much for making my life easier!

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

You're welcome!! Can I interest you in one of John Sheppard's many neuroses??? (The first one's free!)

[jadesfire.livejournal.com]

*wanders in late as usual*

I'm in awe of the work you're putting in to make this work. As someone who hasn't a clue which platform I'm going to use and how, I'm getting peer pressure both from the "OOH WONDERFUL DREAMWIDTH" and "ENOUGH OF DREAMWIDTH ALREADY" crowds but this? This might just restore my faith that both are possible.

On your ETA 3...er...could I suggest what's possibly the obvious? Just make the post once, closing the old challenge and opening the new one all in one go? Like you, I'd like to see the ADMIN stay neutral and in both places. Just a thought :)

THANK YOU! I may be able to use my DW account without guilt or prejudice if other comms follow this example. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Doh. No, it wasn't obvious, but you get into a rut doing things the way you've done them--*points to icon*--sure we could combine opening and closing posts! Brilliant and halves the problem. *g*

[ellex42.livejournal.com]

Wow...I am VERY impressed. You = win.