Title: MVP (74k) Author: Speranza Pairing: Sheppard/McKay Postcard: here Summary: "All right, all right, nothing to see here," he heard Sheppard say. "You've seen one giant snake, you've seen 'em all."
I get the impression that while John would die for his team and while he's generous with his attention, he keeps a sort of distance between himself and people in everyday interactions. So his neediness *seems* like it wouldn't fit
I think what you're saying about "detachment" and "neediness"--to me, those seem like two sides of the same coin. I mean, part of what I was going for was that, having made this kind of freak connection with Rodney, Rodney's now John's only outlet for certain deep emotional and sexual needs (well, or reverse that: sexual needs, certainly, at first, but emotional needs as the relationship--and the story--continues.)
That being said, though (and I feel more comfortable talking about this now that mostly everyone who's gonna read it has read it and formed their own opinions) I think John's neediness in the story has been overstated--or rather, I don't take much of John at face value, here. I tried to write him as someone interested primarily in preserving a safe, sexual outlet for himself, and I'm not even sure he understands that Rodney's offering a LOT more than that until really, really late in the story. So much so that I'm one of the people who's almost worried about Rodney, in this: I mean, Rodney literally has to handcuff John to the bed to get him to spend the night with him the first time (and initially, that scene made it a lot more clear that Rodney did that absolutely on purpose.) So John is needy on the one hand--or certainly willing to appear so to keep Rodney in a sexual relationship--and yet he has these huge committment issues on the other hand (so that the real signal of "it's okay" in the story is that John's let Rodney into his apartment. The real sex scene: Rodney moves his coffee to John's place. That's the only union that matters: my coffee, your pot. *g*) I think John has his first, Helen Kellerish moment of identification with Rodney's position when Rodney has to stay behind on Cartum--that moment of "oh, okay, wow, this is how Rodney feels when I do risky things: it hurt him! Hey, it kind of hurts me! Maybe that means something!" but even so, I don't think he gets it until Rodney tells him that he's invaluable just before the epilogue. John's like--like--(*thinking*)--somebody who knows how to pretend to be in relationships, but actually has always been going through the motions. He's--a mimic, a performer, I think--he doesn't really get people (though he pretends to.) FWIW, I think Rodney pretends NOT to get people but actually gets people fairly well: he strikes me as--believe it or not--the LESS dorky of the two in this regard. John, on the other hand, is totally faking something really key--and I'm still trying to figure out what that is, (which is what I think is driving my love of this fandom, actually, and of John in particular!)
Anyway, more than you wanted to know, but there you go! It was a really thought provoking comment for me!
John, on the other hand, is totally faking something really key...
Absolutely! He fakes just about everything, and the only time we get to see into the real John in canon is when he's really pissed off about something. He's extremely, almost pathologically detached, yet he likes people and is sociable. I think there has to be some fairly heavy emotional history behind this attitude; nothing overly dramatic, but just a long lifetime of being pushed aside, undervalued, shouted at for being independent; I'm convinced he didn't have a perfectly loving childhood, possibly even less so than Rodney (who I can be convinced is like he is just for his own attitude, nothing anyone has necessarily put him through).
John strikes me as a rather friendly but stand-offish wolf, or shark, always circling the pack, known to everyone but not really well known to any, like some of the most sociable 'in crowd' at parties. I agree with those fics that say he has had to hide his intelligence from college frat mates.
Rodney is very quirky, but most of it is out in the open, you are not left to guess much. John is just an enigma behind a whole series of masks. From other people's comments, I think this is a large reason why some fans are totally attracted to him, others are put off, finding him unquantifiable, even a bit alien and creepy. Me, I've always liked the deep ones ;)
And no, it wasn't my original comment, just leaping into the discussion! Hope you don't mind *G*
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Belatedly replying to say--
Date: 2006-03-27 06:44 pm (UTC)I think what you're saying about "detachment" and "neediness"--to me, those seem like two sides of the same coin. I mean, part of what I was going for was that, having made this kind of freak connection with Rodney, Rodney's now John's only outlet for certain deep emotional and sexual needs (well, or reverse that: sexual needs, certainly, at first, but emotional needs as the relationship--and the story--continues.)
That being said, though (and I feel more comfortable talking about this now that mostly everyone who's gonna read it has read it and formed their own opinions) I think John's neediness in the story has been overstated--or rather, I don't take much of John at face value, here. I tried to write him as someone interested primarily in preserving a safe, sexual outlet for himself, and I'm not even sure he understands that Rodney's offering a LOT more than that until really, really late in the story. So much so that I'm one of the people who's almost worried about Rodney, in this: I mean, Rodney literally has to handcuff John to the bed to get him to spend the night with him the first time (and initially, that scene made it a lot more clear that Rodney did that absolutely on purpose.) So John is needy on the one hand--or certainly willing to appear so to keep Rodney in a sexual relationship--and yet he has these huge committment issues on the other hand (so that the real signal of "it's okay" in the story is that John's let Rodney into his apartment. The real sex scene: Rodney moves his coffee to John's place. That's the only union that matters: my coffee, your pot. *g*) I think John has his first, Helen Kellerish moment of identification with Rodney's position when Rodney has to stay behind on Cartum--that moment of "oh, okay, wow, this is how Rodney feels when I do risky things: it hurt him! Hey, it kind of hurts me! Maybe that means something!" but even so, I don't think he gets it until Rodney tells him that he's invaluable just before the epilogue. John's like--like--(*thinking*)--somebody who knows how to pretend to be in relationships, but actually has always been going through the motions. He's--a mimic, a performer, I think--he doesn't really get people (though he pretends to.) FWIW, I think Rodney pretends NOT to get people but actually gets people fairly well: he strikes me as--believe it or not--the LESS dorky of the two in this regard. John, on the other hand, is totally faking something really key--and I'm still trying to figure out what that is, (which is what I think is driving my love of this fandom, actually, and of John in particular!)
Anyway, more than you wanted to know, but there you go! It was a really thought provoking comment for me!
Re: Belatedly replying to say--
Date: 2006-03-29 01:37 am (UTC)Absolutely! He fakes just about everything, and the only time we get to see into the real John in canon is when he's really pissed off about something. He's extremely, almost pathologically detached, yet he likes people and is sociable. I think there has to be some fairly heavy emotional history behind this attitude; nothing overly dramatic, but just a long lifetime of being pushed aside, undervalued, shouted at for being independent; I'm convinced he didn't have a perfectly loving childhood, possibly even less so than Rodney (who I can be convinced is like he is just for his own attitude, nothing anyone has necessarily put him through).
John strikes me as a rather friendly but stand-offish wolf, or shark, always circling the pack, known to everyone but not really well known to any, like some of the most sociable 'in crowd' at parties. I agree with those fics that say he has had to hide his intelligence from college frat mates.
Rodney is very quirky, but most of it is out in the open, you are not left to guess much. John is just an enigma behind a whole series of masks. From other people's comments, I think this is a large reason why some fans are totally attracted to him, others are put off, finding him unquantifiable, even a bit alien and creepy. Me, I've always liked the deep ones ;)
And no, it wasn't my original comment, just leaping into the discussion! Hope you don't mind *G*